Camillo Agrippa, Part the Second

2010 February 26
by Chris Slee

This is the second part of my delvings into the morass which is Camillo Agrippa’s 1553 fencing text, Trattato Di Scientia d’ Arme. Today, I want to look at Agrippa’s third primary stance which Capo Ferro calls the only true guard position. I’m going to check out how to stand in it and what attacks and defenses can be best used from it.

Before getting stuck in, I’ve got to acknowledge again that I’m a beginner and make no claim to the accuracy or utility of what follows. I’d love anyone who understands Agrippa to correct me.

First, let’s define some terms. Agrippa defines a number of stances (static guard positions) and actions (movements for attack or defence) in his own quite peculiar way. They form a short-hand to understand how he wants you to move in a given circumstance. I’ll be using the hand positions first, second, third and fourth as discussed in my previous post on Agrippa .

Stances and Actions

Camillo Agrippa - Stance CStance C: Hold you weapon in third position in a wide stance. That is, stand with your feet about shoulder width apart with your right foot forward and your left foot slightly to the side of a straight line from you opponent, through your right foot and out behind you. The sword is held to the outside of your right knee.

 

Camillo Agrippa - Stance FStance F: This is the same as Stance C except that you are in a narrow stance, meaning that your feet are close together. You can get the Stance F from Stance C by either stepping forward (drawing you left foot up next to your right) or by stepping backwards (drawing your right foot back next to your left). Both movements have their uses.

 

Camillo Agrippa - Action GAction G (and P): The only difference between Action G and Action P is that G aims a thrust at the head and P aims a thrust at the belly. The actions are performed in the same manner and both actions aim to get you out of the way while you counter thrust at an opponent who is in the process of attacking you. There are two keys to this action.

  1. Take a large step to your right to immediately void your body – to get yourself off the line of your opponent’s attack. Agrippa says to do this with your right foot. The same effect is achieved by moving your left foot to the right in a maneuver which came to be known later as a punta riversa or volte.
  2. At the same time as your move (or even beforehand), change you sword hand into fourth position in order to simultaneously block the opponent’s sword and use it to guide your point straight back into your opponent’s body. This technique is called a thrust with opposition or contra-punta.

Camillo Agrippa - Action KAction K: This is the mirror image of Action G in that it performs the same function while you step to the left. The keys to the action are:

  1. Agrippa says to take a large step to the left with your right foot. This sounds warning bells for me because it leaves you with your legs crossed and in an unstable position. I think that making this step with your left foot achieves the same end and maintains your stability.
  2. At the same time (or even beforehand), change your sword hand into second position in order block the opponent’s sword and thrust at him or her as in Action G above.

Attacks and Defences from Stance C

Next, let’s have a look at what Agrippa says you can do from Stance C. In terms of defence, Agrippa really only has one general strategy. He suggests that, as an opponent launches an attack at you, you should step back from Stance C into Stance F. At best, this is enough to counter the attack. At worst, it gives you additional time to deal with it using an off-hand weapons such as a main gauche or by blocking the attack with your sword “di cruce” (from the cross). Once you’ve dealt with the attack, counter attack. This is standard double-time response stuff. Nothing special here.

He also talks about some single time responses to an attack such as turning your hand into second or fourth position as appropriate and thrusting home or blocking the opponent’s attack at the cross and responding with a cut. Other than some flourishes, this seems to be the extent of the defenses from Stance C.

The only attack of any substance that Agrippa discusses comes in two variations. It involves provoking your opponent to attack you then murdering him or her while they are “disordered,” to use his term. Here’s how it goes.

  1. Step forward from Stance C into Stance F. If your opponent does nothing, your sword point goes through his or her head. That’s fine in itself but what you’re looking for is the inevitable defensive move. Most people do not stand idly by while someone stabs them in the eye. Those who do, deserve it.
  2. Use Action G (or P) or K to counterattack as appropriate. If the opponent’s blade is to your left, use Action G (or P). If the opponent’s blade is on your right, use Action K. I don’t like having to make a decision at this point in proceedings. My brain is not quick enough for that any more. I guess there is scope to angle step 1 in some way to provoke a particular response rather than any ol’ response from your opponent. I’ll have to experiment more with this at training.

Plays Beginning in Stance C

Agrippa’s plays (or set-piece drills for training purposes) are pretty similar. I need to study these much more closely and test them out on the field to ensure I understand them correctly. On the face of them, however, they seem sound and I can see how they work.

Play One: The student stands in Stance C; the partner in Stance A (hand in first poisiton, narrow stance). The partner thrusts at the student who uses Action G both block/cross the partner’s weapon and thrust home. This is a single time defence.

Play Two: The student stands in Stance C; the partner in Stance B (hand in second position, narrow stance). The partner thrusts from Stance B. The student sweeps across the body from Stance C, capturing the partner’s blade and ending with a thrust against the partner in Stance H (hand in second position, wide stance).

Play Three: The student stands in Stance C; the partner in Stance B (hand in second position, narrow stance). The partner steps forward to thrust at the student (hand in second position, wide stance). The student slips back (withdraws into Stance B) and, once the partner’s blade has passed, attacks with a thrust in Stance H (hand in second position, wide stance).

Play Four: The student stands in Stance C; the partner in Stance D (hand in fourth position, wide stance). The partner changes his stance to attack in A (hand in first position). The student changes stance from C to D to block the attack and lunges at the partner (Action I).

What Is My Next Language?

2010 February 19

On 17 March, I’ll be sitting the DELF exam for level B1. Whether I pass or not, I reckon that this will mark the end of my formal studies of French. While I’ll not claim to speak the language well, I can be understood and I can understand others as long as they speak clearly. I’ll still read French history in French and watch french cinema. But the only way to become fluent from this point is to spend a significant amount of time in a French-speaking country — and I can’t see that happening in the near future.

The … read on »

Camillo Agrippa, Part The First

2010 February 5
by Chris Slee
Inigo Montoya
You are using Bonetti’s Defense against me, ah?
Man in Black
I thought it fitting considering the rocky terrain.
Inigo Montoya
Naturally, you must suspect me to attack with Capo Ferro?
Man in Black
Naturally… but I find that Thibault cancels out Capo Ferro. Don’t you?
Inigo Montoya
Unless the enemy has studied his Agrippa… which I have.

Camillo AggripaAnd with this quote from The Princess Bride begins my look at the work of Camillo Agrippa, a Renaissance architect, engineer and mathematician who lifted fencing out of … read on »

Homemade Dusacks

2010 January 29
by Chris Slee

Collegium-in-Armis, the German longsword group I fence with, is branching out into other weapons systems that fall within the German martial tradition. One of the guys has a thing for the dusack so this weapon has become the next in line to be studied.

This wooden or hardened leather weapon was used in two basic ways in the 14th and 15th centuries. First, it was used in the fencing schools as a way of introducing students who have learned the two-handed longsword to single-handed swords. Second, it was used by the town watch, particularly in eastern … read on »

It’s All Downhill From Here

2010 January 15
by Chris Slee

I have nothing to say.

Damn.

Sigh.

Organising Google Reader

2010 January 8
by Chris Slee

I’ve finally found a way to manage the vast amount of RSS feeds I read on a daily basis: some are for work in order to keep up with developments in the IT industry, others are of merely personal interest. After trying many, many different feed readers, I’ve settled on Google Reader because I can use it at any of the numerous computer I encounter at home, at work and place in between.

(If you don’t know what RSS is, I reckon it’s time to stop banging rocks together in your cave-lair and drag yourself into the real … read on »

For Your Listening Pleasure

2009 December 27
by Chris Slee

I just realised that it’s Sunday and I’m two days late in posting. The schedule may be meaningless and self-imposed but it quietens the stabby-stabby thoughts. And to get it out of the way: Christmas was great. Kathi and I spend it alone and reconnecting with each other. It’s been a very valuable time for both of us.

Now to television and the best sci-fi show you’ll never see: Defying Gravity. This show is just plain awesome, not least for being targetted at adults rather than teens, but also for not being a Star Trek clone. … read on »

Rapier Play Versus Modern Fencing

2009 December 18
by Chris Slee

Last night was the year’s last training session for the Australian College of Arms. Instead of regular training, some members of the Black Knights Fencing, a modern fence club, came for a visit and we mixed it up with them and had a great time. We played for a while with their weapons (epee and sabre) then they played with ours (rapier and side sword with an off-hand weapons for defense). It may come as a surprise to many that I’ve never actually done modern fence before. Wow! It’s fast. Very, very fast. 

The big surprise weilding … read on »

TV and Movie Roundup

2009 December 11
tags: , ,
by Chris Slee

I’ve been watching. And with watching come thinking. Which leads inexorably to blogging.

Paranormal Activity: This is a standout. Shot for US$15,000 and somehow managing to get a cinema release, this film is scary as hell, despite suffering from too much Blair Witch handycam camera work, precisely because of the low budget. Apparently, the filmmakers decided that because they had such a small budget they had to suggest the horror rather than spend their cash on special effects and such to show the horror. The film has nothing new to say but it … read on »

Back to the Grindstone

2009 December 4
Comments Off
by Chris Slee

The funny thing about having time off work is that I completely lost interest in updating my blog. This may be because I lost all track of time and if it wasn’t for regular weekly events I wouldn’t have known what day of the week it was. But now that I’m back at work, these little updates seem to mean so much. I can’t even say that they’re a work avoidance technique since I generally don’t blog at work.

Four weeks away from the office allows you to really get yourself together and get all the things done that you’ve … read on »