Camillo Agrippa, Part the Third

2010 March 12
by Chris Slee

In this third part of my wallowing in the cesspool of Agrippa’s 1553 fencing text Trattato Di Scientia d’ Arme, I want to examine the primary guards of Stance B and Stance D and try to understand the differences Agrippa makes between them. To me they seem like mirror images of each other in terms of function and Agrippa, too, treats them in this way.

Again, I’d like to acknowledge that I’m a beginner and make no claim to the accuracy or utility of what follows. I’d love anyone who understands Agrippa to correct me.

First, let’s define some terms. Agrippa defines a number of stances (static guard positions) and actions (movements for attack or defence) in his own quite peculiar way. They form a short-hand to understand how he wants you to move in a given circumstance. I’ll be using the hand positions first, second, third and fourth as discussed in my previous post on Agrippa .

Stances and Actions

Camillo Agrippa - Stance BStance B: Hold your weapon in second position in a narrow stance, that is with you feet close together but you right foot slightly forward of your left. Keep your off hand or secondary weapon (dagger or buckler) in front of you covering your chest. In second position, your hand is held at the same horizontal level as your shoulder with the blade covering your outside line.

Agrippa’s basic tactical advice for this stance is to step backward with your left foot in the face of an attack into Stance D then counterthrust with opposition. To attack from Stance B, you simply step forward (presumably on the circle rather than straight ahead) with your right foot and drive your point home.

Camillo Agrippa - Stance DStance D: Hold  you weapon in fourth position in a wide stance, that is with your feet about shoulder width apart and your right foot forward. The trick with this stance is to turn your body so that you present your right side to your opponent. Your sword is held on the inside of your right knee and is protecting your inside line. Because of your side-on orientation, your left hand is best held out of the way or above your head.

Agrippa warns explicitly against using this stance against a skilled opponent but elsewhere claims that there is no tactical difference between this and Stance C in that both hold an opponent at wide distance from you.

Camillo Agrippa - Action HAction H: Hold yourself in Stance B and take either a step forward with your right foot or a step backwards with your left foot. In either case, you are performing Action H, a thrust with your hand in second position. This action is best used to counter a riversa (cut from the attacker’s left) or a thrust from Stance D (see immediately below). Use this action, Agrippa says, against an opponent standing in a wide third position stance (ie: Stance C).

Camillo Agrippa - Action IAction I: This action is much more opaque. On the face of it, it seems like a standard Italian or classical lunge in fourth but since you already begin the action in a wide stance, stretching forward or stepping into a wider position appears counterproductive. It appears to be the final part of a larger action which involves contracting or narrowing one’s stance to void an attack before counter-thrusting. Use this action, says Agrippa, against an opponent standing in a narrow third position (ie: Stance F).

Actions H and I are, in effect, the counters for each other. Agrippa does not devote a great deal of space in the text to these two stances and two actions yet they seem to form a core technique in this tradition. Everywhere he discusses one, he discusses the other. According to Agrippa, one feints from stance B then cavares under the opponent’s weapon to thrust home using Action I. The mirror image is to feint in D, cavare under and counterthrust using Action H. If we leave out the footwork, this represents a shift of the hand from second to fourth position or the reverse. This is a core technique in modern fence.

Parries or counters from Stance B and Stance D involve the same basic mechanic: you change your guard into Stance C (moving either forwards or backwards as circumstances dictate) in order to capture (stingere, trouver, gain, etc) or cross the opponent’s blade and from that point you launch yourself forward using either Action H or I to drive home your attack.

Agrippa does not seem to have any attacks starting from Stance B or D. Perhaps this is why Capo Ferro says that they are not guard positions but stages in particular attacking or defending actions. Stances B and D are the starting (or ending) points of Actions H and I. Like Actions G (and P) and K discussed last time, they seem to be defensive in nature and more in the line of a manner to counter-thrust once an attack has been parried, voided or otherwise set aside. Against a cut, whether from the left of the right, these Actions can be used as a single-time defence which in one move blocks the opponent’s cut and counter-thrusts against the opponent. The key to these techniques is the feint. You need to force the opponent to move and break his or her guard so that you can use these techniques in response.

Plays from Stance B and Stance D

There does not seem to be a set of plays specifically for Stance B or D or Action H or Action I. This is completely dissimilar to the fixed plays for Stance C. What Agrippa provides instead is a bunch of tactical advice. You can easily develop your own plays from this.

Wide versus Narrow

  • If your opponent stands in a wide stance (feet wide apart), adopt Stance B. When your opponent attacks, step back with your left foot into a wide stance such as Stance C or Stance D before counter-attacking.
  • If your opponent stands in a narrow stance (feet close together), adopt Stance D. When you opponent attacks, step back with your right foot into Stance B (or Stance F?) before counter-attacking.

Double-Time Defence

  • If you are standing in either Stance B or in Stance D and your opponents thrusts at you, change into Stance C to defeat his attack di cruce (at the cross) before counter-attacking.

Camillo Agrippa, Part the Second

2010 February 26
by Chris Slee

This is the second part of my delvings into the morass which is Camillo Agrippa’s 1553 fencing text, Trattato Di Scientia d’ Arme. Today, I want to look at Agrippa’s third primary stance which Capo Ferro calls the only true guard position. I’m going to check out how to stand in it and what attacks and defenses can be best used from it.

Before getting stuck in, I’ve got to acknowledge again that I’m a beginner and make no claim to the accuracy or utility of what follows. I’d love … read on »

What Is My Next Language?

2010 February 19

On 17 March, I’ll be sitting the DELF exam for level B1. Whether I pass or not, I reckon that this will mark the end of my formal studies of French. While I’ll not claim to speak the language well, I can be understood and I can understand others as long as they speak clearly. I’ll still read French history in French and watch french cinema. But the only way to become fluent from this point is to spend a significant amount of time in a French-speaking country — and I can’t see that happening in the near future.

The … read on »

Camillo Agrippa, Part The First

2010 February 5
by Chris Slee
Inigo Montoya
You are using Bonetti’s Defense against me, ah?
Man in Black
I thought it fitting considering the rocky terrain.
Inigo Montoya
Naturally, you must suspect me to attack with Capo Ferro?
Man in Black
Naturally… but I find that Thibault cancels out Capo Ferro. Don’t you?
Inigo Montoya
Unless the enemy has studied his Agrippa… which I have.

Camillo AggripaAnd with this quote from The Princess Bride begins my look at the work of Camillo Agrippa, a Renaissance architect, engineer and mathematician who lifted fencing out of … read on »

Homemade Dusacks

2010 January 29
by Chris Slee

Collegium-in-Armis, the German longsword group I fence with, is branching out into other weapons systems that fall within the German martial tradition. One of the guys has a thing for the dusack so this weapon has become the next in line to be studied.

This wooden or hardened leather weapon was used in two basic ways in the 14th and 15th centuries. First, it was used in the fencing schools as a way of introducing students who have learned the two-handed longsword to single-handed swords. Second, it was used by the town watch, particularly in eastern … read on »

It’s All Downhill From Here

2010 January 15
by Chris Slee

I have nothing to say.

Damn.

Sigh.

Organising Google Reader

2010 January 8
by Chris Slee

I’ve finally found a way to manage the vast amount of RSS feeds I read on a daily basis: some are for work in order to keep up with developments in the IT industry, others are of merely personal interest. After trying many, many different feed readers, I’ve settled on Google Reader because I can use it at any of the numerous computer I encounter at home, at work and place in between.

(If you don’t know what RSS is, I reckon it’s time to stop banging rocks together in your cave-lair and drag yourself into the real … read on »

For Your Listening Pleasure

2009 December 27
by Chris Slee

I just realised that it’s Sunday and I’m two days late in posting. The schedule may be meaningless and self-imposed but it quietens the stabby-stabby thoughts. And to get it out of the way: Christmas was great. Kathi and I spend it alone and reconnecting with each other. It’s been a very valuable time for both of us.

Now to television and the best sci-fi show you’ll never see: Defying Gravity. This show is just plain awesome, not least for being targetted at adults rather than teens, but also for not being a Star Trek clone. … read on »

Rapier Play Versus Modern Fencing

2009 December 18
by Chris Slee

Last night was the year’s last training session for the Australian College of Arms. Instead of regular training, some members of the Black Knights Fencing, a modern fence club, came for a visit and we mixed it up with them and had a great time. We played for a while with their weapons (epee and sabre) then they played with ours (rapier and side sword with an off-hand weapons for defense). It may come as a surprise to many that I’ve never actually done modern fence before. Wow! It’s fast. Very, very fast. 

The big surprise weilding … read on »

TV and Movie Roundup

2009 December 11
tags: , ,
by Chris Slee

I’ve been watching. And with watching come thinking. Which leads inexorably to blogging.

Paranormal Activity: This is a standout. Shot for US$15,000 and somehow managing to get a cinema release, this film is scary as hell, despite suffering from too much Blair Witch handycam camera work, precisely because of the low budget. Apparently, the filmmakers decided that because they had such a small budget they had to suggest the horror rather than spend their cash on special effects and such to show the horror. The film has nothing new to say but it … read on »